Chapter 19
September 1972 The Transcript Part 2
IVAN A. ELLIOTT
Well, the Egyptian is in a little different category since it does have academic programs which grant academic credit having to do with advertising. Isn’t that correct?
JOEL PRESTON
That’s correct, but I don’t see the connection where that has anything to do whether or not they should be allowed to make money by selling space in their newspaper.
EARL WALKER
It’s the competition of the allotted dollar I’m thinking of. That every industry, I assume, or agency in private enterprise allots a certain dollar to advertising, and if the Egyptian or the radio station of anybody else if making some of these dollars this is competition.
WILLIAM W. ALLEN
Why have you, or have you considered the possibility that you would not have to come to this Board for consent? This is a method open to you of not-for-profit corporation which would allow you to do…it would require that you do it in one fell swoop. What you are proposing to do anyway, and that is finance the station ultimately, totally from advertising revenue, if I read it correctly.
JOEL PRESTON
At least partially was the only intention this proposal was ever submitted. We want to relieve ourselves, at least partially, as a burden on the Student Activity fees. We never want to separate ourselves, or claim ourselves independent of the Student Activities program. It’s too strong a program. Plus, incorporating as a not-for-profit corporation would completely sever the ties between such services as Telephone Service, General Stores, and University Legal Counsel. We would no longer be associated with Southern Illinois University. What this proposal seeks is to set up an alternate source of funding. If we were to incorporate, we would have to set up an entire corporate structure.
WILLIAM W. ALLEN
Sure, I understand that. What are the chances of getting the funding from Student Fees that you need? As I understand it, your principal motivation is to get proper funding. Your secondary consideration if that it provides a better learning experience by having the full gamut of commercial operation techniques; the production and sale of time.
JOEL PRESTON
That’s correct. There are the two.
WILLIAM W. ALLEN
What are your chances, do you feel, of getting a full funding from Student Activities?
JOEL PRESTON
Last June I would have said that it would have been quite good, because we had talked to the Finance Committee and talked to the Student Senate and received what we felt was a justified allocation; a reward for what we’d done and a reward for the fact we’re completely student organized, that we serve our students. We are going to be receiving $19,000. I would have no assurance of proper funding now that the new fee allocation system has been introduced.
WILLIAM W. ALLEN
Well, I have listened to your station, and I must commend you on its programming. It’s good, high quality programming of the type. It isn’t the type I would listen to but I don’t live in the dorm. But it’s kind of well done and I commend you for it. It’s clean it’s clean and timely and it’s professionally done. The level of professional competency is high. But I am concerned as Dr. Walker is about this whole bag and you’ve got a very mixed bag in your case. We have a situation where the University collects fees from students and transmits some of these fees to you and you want to get a very mixed situation of income here. Some of it competitive, some of it university subsidized, and I’m really with Dr. Walker on this thing. I’m a bit confused by it. It seems to me that you want to maintain some of your independence from the University academic programs.
JOEL PRESTON
That’s correct.
WILLIAM W. ALLEN
Then you only have one choice and that’s a profit or not-for-profit corporation, which does put some burden on you that you do not now have, I recognize that.
JOEL PRESTON
I would submit that if we had wanted to organize as a not-for-profit organization, we would have done so instead of becoming a student-recognized organization. We want to be in the Student Activities structure.
IVAN A. ELLIOTT
Well, it seems to me that your program is at the present time well done and well run, your volunteers are having fun doing it, you’re not subjecting a captive audience to unwanted commercials. You have a better program now than you could hope to have from the standpoint of the listeners after you go to fees. If you can’t get the fees it would be different. So far you have been able to get from student activity fees and is seems to me that the students in the dorms will suffer from advertising instead of benefiting.
JOEL PRESTON
Well, I would disagree.
HAROLD R. FISCHER
May I cut you short, we have given you almost 40 minutes, you have done an excellent presentation, we’ve got another Trustee who’s been trying to get in here.
HARRIS ROWE
Well I have no problem if we want to look at it but I would submit to the Trustees but I’m not really suggesting in plowing new ground as I think we were trying to make it. We’ve long since crossed this problem, it seems to me of permitting advertising in our Athletic programs. And many of these other things which would be still with someone else’s advertising dollar. That to me is no bug-a-boo at all. And we very well know the change and the uncertainty and the change that may be taking place as we give the students more and more opportunity to determine where their student activity money is to go. And so they’ve come up with a plan which in my opinion the other advertisers would hardly notice at all. That’s just my guess but I think that’s probably been true at Northern. Once again we’re not plowing new ground as far as other state universities are concerned So I, me, want to be compensated in a small way for what they’re doing, and enjoying doing it isn’t any mortal sin and is no more than what they should be entitled to, and I for one would like to give them an opportunity to go ahead.
HAROLD R. FISCHER
We also have three representatives from three broadcasting stations which have asked permission to speak. Do you three gentlemen have a spokesman or can one of you speak for the three of you? We don’t want to be unreasonable on time. We’ve come a long way but we don’t have to have each of you repeat the same statement.
PAUL MCCROY
We have sort of a tri-parte presentation here each one of us.
HAROLD R. FISCHER
How much time do you…
PAUL MCCROY
Oh, about ten minutes.
HAROLD R. FISCHER
For the three of you?
PAUL MCCROY
Right.
HAROLD R. FISCHER
Fine, come in, let’s thank you young men Mr. Preston and Mr. Davis have done an excellent job. You’re to be commended for your efforts today. If your spokesman there, if you’ll introduce yourselves, proceed. You requested ten minutes and we’ll be glad to give it to you.
PAUL MCCROY
Well, I’m Paul McCroy, I’m the manager of the radio station WCIL in Carbondale and to my right is Dale Adkins, who is the manager of WINI in Murphysboro and to his right is George Dodd the manager of WGGH in Marion. We represent the Southern Illinois Broadcasters which is really all the commercial broadcasters south of Route 50. I think there are about 20 all together. Now we have met several times on this problem. We’ve been following it and we request the opportunity of presenting the viewpoint of the commercial broadcasters to the proposition. Let me say that we do appreciate very much your holding this up until we could get here. We came by separate cars. It was my first experience coming here and I was in the lead car and we saw about 20 minutes of your campus before we finally located the right place.
HAROLD R. FISCHER
You enjoyed the campus I hope.
PAUL MCCROY
We did very much. We regret really to find ourselves opposing the aspirations of these obviously dedicated and able young people here. But out position is one of opposing this. Now we have not had much time to prepare something here, we thought we would break this up into three parts. My part would simply be to look at their proposal and point out certain things that seem pertinent to us. Mr. Adkins is going to present the reason why commercial broadcasters oppose having this station become commercial. Mr. Dodd is going to come up with a recommendation which we think pretty well summarizes the thinking of the commercial broadcasters in the area. In looking thru the proposal, the pages were labeled or numbered but to be able to refer to it I put numbers there and I don’t know whether you have these proposals in front of you or not, but just to go quickly thru some things which we think might not have a completely clear impression of the stand of broadcasters at stake have taken. On page 8 they make some little bit there that the fact that other media, referring to commercial radio, did not respond. In fact this really is the sequence of events leading up to this point. Bob (sic) Davis, who represented himself as sales manager of WIDB called on the managers of several area stations the summer of 1971 requesting us to contact Dean Moulton to express our views on WIDB selling commercials. So we did request such a conference and we met with Dean Moulton, Jack Beier, and we expressed our opposition to the selling of commercials on WIDB and requested that Moulton set up a meeting with President Layer and the conference with Layer did take place about a month later. Attending that meeting were managers from ten Southern Illinois Stations, Harrisburg, Fairfield, Marion, DuQuoin, Salem, McLeansboro, Murphysboro and Carbondale. Attending also was Senator Gene John Richard Darby, and here again we expressed opposition to competing with SIU and commercial broadcasting, and we expressed a number of concerns and we were assured that we would be rather we would be advised when and if further consideration would be given to WIDB to become commercial. And that of course we are here today. We hope that adequately expresses the concern that we’ve had and the fact that we have been following this, and that we have been objecting all along. On page 8 it says and it says that the Southern Illinoisian’s reaction was favorable. I talked to John Gardner and I think John has written a letter to James Brown clarifying his views and I presume this letter is here, perhaps.
JAMES BROWN (Chief of Staff, Board of Trustees)
That letter has been distributed to members of the Board.
PAUL MCCROY
In other words, I’m sure when we read it, it was not endorsing this idea at all. The chamber of commerce letter was quoted in there and the statement was made in quotes that the Chamber of Council Executive members were very receptive and endorsed our program as helpful to the Carbondale area. I checked with both the President of the Chamber and the secretary to Ray Leck and I have here a letter which points out that there was no intention of endorsement that the letter simply stated that these people did appear. I’d be glad to give this letter to anyone on of your board should have it. I have it right here and available. Now ion [page 215 the case is made that this would not be competition in Southern Illinois stations and rather unhappily it refers to WCIL, which I own and manage, and it says that WCIL is sold out several months in advance. I wish that was the situation, but unhappily that is not so. As a matter of fact we’ve had 3 or 4 staff meetings in he past month to see what we could to to increase our sales from 8pm to 2am which is rock programming which we do for the university students. We’re trying very hard to make the FM operation break even. We would consider this very direct and probably significant competition. We notice on page 10 and 51, in discussing their rate structure, I’m quoting here again, “so long as the campus station WIDB keeps its rates near the rate of WCIL and WTAO, which is a new all-rock station operating in Murphysboro, as long as they keep their rates near the rates of these stations, unfair competition will not result. This unfair competition would only result if the campus station had rates which would significantly undercut a local station. They correctly quote WCIL’s rate as $3.90 and WTAO’s rate as $8.00. Then they show on page 51 their proposed rate card which shows selling a 30 second spot for 80 cents. There again our cost for that same spot would be $3.90 so I think you can see the sort of competition we could see on the streets of Carbondale. On page 12, they make some point of the fact that there’s an opportunity for commercial experience for students interested in Radio-TV. I’ve checked back in our own records during the fall quarter of last year. Of 19 employees we had at WCIL only 5 were not students. Of the 14 that were students most were Radio-TV majors and two of them were selling advertising. My point is that there is a broad opportunity for Radio-TV majors out there to work in area commercial radio stations, as many of them do. We’re a little bit interested in the statistics that WIDB uses in justifying the fact that they would simply one of many selling commercials. On page 7, WIDB is represented as being one of 400 college stations similar in purpose. On page 54, reference is made to the Ford Foundation Report on college radio. The third paragraph states that most carrier-current stations labeled themselves as commercial. However of the 136 that did so, only 104 reported advertising as a budget source. They’re using the quoted figure here of 136 or 104. Now the world almanac lists 1,400 senior colleges in the United States. Therefore it’s obvious that it’s about no more than one in 10 colleges that even claim they’re commercial. And, of these, we have no information about how many are private institutions, that is , not tax supported. We also have no information on how many of these colleges carry on no other broadcasting activity such as Southern Illinois University does in Carbondale. Now we note with come interest that on page 51, reference is made to WKDI, DeKalb, the student radio station at Northern Illinois University. We checked a little bit on this and find out that Northern Illinois University is scarcely in the broadcast business at all. They have no TV station there nor do they have a Radio-TV training school, at least in any measure comparable to Southern Illinois. Its FM station is low power. It’s 2.5 kilowatts, with very limited programming and coverage. Also, to get to the attitude of the commercial broadcasters up there, I called Jerome Cerney, who is the manager of WLBK, to see what he thinks about this and he said very unfortunately he just got there five years ago. But that WKDI started some sort of operation 8 years ago. He was there too late to be in a position to make any objection to it but that he hoped that some sort of action would take place down here that could help him up there. There is no question that it a commercial type of—that is a type of commercial competition. Now, just a couple of other comments, on page 32, they make a statement about commentaries, which would cause me considerable concern if I were sitting where you are. They say it shall be the policy of the station to air commentaries on issues or events of campus or national nature. The WIDB Radio Board, the Student Government and Southern Illinois University do not assume responsibility for views expressed in commentaries. Spokesmen for opposing viewpoints shall be given a reasonable opportunity to reply. Those of us in commercial broadcasting know that we can simply not relieve ourselves of responsibility for any viewpoints expressed on there, except politicians speaking on their own behalf while running for office. I don’t think you can side step that one!
HAROLD R. FISCHER
That’s very interesting. The fellow on your right is going to pick up now….is that it? Or have you taken care of all three of you?
PAUL MCCROY
No let me give you one…one other quick thing we think about then the fellows on my right will pick up. Both of us will have short statements. We think if WIDB sells commercials, ASCAP, BMI and SESAC music license fees will have to be paid. We’ve contacted ASCAP to find out about that and they said yes. Now this required accounting system with 100% correlation between the program logs and commercial contracts. Now WIDB will be subject to periodic audits We wonder also if you start paying anyone at WIDB, whether you’ll be able to use free employees any longer. I hope I did not run over too long.
DALE ADKINS
I’ll try to make up some lost time, Mr. Fischer.
HAROLD R. FISCHER
Now let’s see, you said you were going to take ten minutes. You’ve had 15 minutes. I thought that the 3 of you were going to go.
DALE ADKINS
I’ll try to be brief and leave you a copy of what I’m about to say so I won’t have to go thru all of it. We object on three grounds I think, all of which were raised in some discussion earlier. I think all of which were raised in some discussion earlier. I wish to point out though, for one thing, even though the potential audience of WIDB will be small in some comparisons, 6400 persons, all adults whose halls are now wired into the system form a population larger than Chester, or Du Quoin, or Sparta or Benton, or many of our Southern Illinois cities which are considered markets in themselves. And there is also the possibility of wiring additional dormitories and buildings in the system to create larger audience. Through more sophisticated means, there is a possibility of extending service outside the limits of the campus. Now the proposal in front of you estimates advertising sales of $8,000 the first year, but as indicated in their petition, and by the spokesmen here, this would only be the beginning. Once this proposal is approved, I sure that none of us in this room would expect sales to go down. The natural thing for ambitious people to increase sales year after year., and then I’m sure this would become $15,000 and then $20,000 perhaps $50,000 a year. And my friends much of that revenue would be obtained at the expense of other businessmen in the area. Not just radio operators like ourselves, but printers, signpainters, specialty advertising companies television stations, newspapers and the like. We’re opposed to the entry of the University into non-teaching enterprises which compete with private business. And even though the argument is presented that WIDB does not make use of tax revenue, well that’s no denial that WIDB is a function of the University and that’s tax supported. Assisted by University faculty and administration representatives owing its very existence to the fact of the University. So that point is merely lost in the technicality of the argument. Addressing for just a moment to the comparison of WIDB to the Daily Egyptian, there’s really not much parallel, because the Egyptian is relaly a laboratory of the Journalism Department. WIDB on the other hand is an extracirricular organization. The Egyptian operates a teaching situation with a teacher-instructor relationship. WIDB offers no qualified instruction for those who participate. The Egyptian is guided by trained experienced Journalists and faculty,. WIDB is governed by a Board of Directors most of whom are Undergraduate students that have no experience in the field of broadcasting. In other words there is no real governing body that knows whether they are doing a good job or what they’re doing. Now we as broadcasters and as citizens who have some knowledge in the field of communication are also very concerned about another aspect of closed circuit campus radio. The operation of the station is neither licensed by the Federal bureau of communications commission (sic) nor really governed by any department of the University which is involved in teaching. Since it is wired into the dormitories, none of you board members have a chance to listen to know what it being broadcast. You or I have no way of knowing what’s on the air on this station unless we go there and listen. It’s not monitored by faculty, it’s not monitored by the administration. It is not monitored by the general public. So there is the question of what is being broadcast. What news stories are being covered and what discussion of what topics are being aired. Who are the guest interviewees. I think it might be well to look into it a little further. There are some serious things about the operation as to who are the 80 volunteer workers, who staffs the station, if they are all students of if some of the 80 might be notable non-students. If 80 people walk in and out the door every week and the station has received funds totaling $27,000 during the past 2 years and another $19,000 this year it might be wise to seek a close accounting of the expenditure of that $45,000. Now as one who has spent his entire adult life in broadcasting I have some serious question as to whether those expenditures are serving a worthwhile purpose on the campus. I’ll conclude with that and let Mr. Dodd have a couple of minutes here.
GEORGE DODD
Mr. Chairman, clock me at two and one-half minutes. Gentlemen the tax payers of the State of Illinois have helped to provide Southern Illinois University with one of the finest, most thoroughly-equipped Radio and Television Departments in the nation. The university is a licensee of a VHF television station in Carbondale. a UHF television station in Olney and two high powered FM stations in Carbondale and Edwardsville. The Radio-TV Department is staffed with people we know will be highly capable and qualified faculty members. We feel that if a student desires to learn about Radio and Television broadcasting he should pursue his studies at the University Radio and TV Department where he can be taught by qualified instructors. We believe that it is far better for them to learn the basic elements of the industry through quality instruction, rather then in a undisciplined, unguided atmosphere on a closed or rather a campus closed circuit station which is WIDB. Furthermore there is a broad opportunity for Radio and TV majors to secure part time employment at the area radio stations working n all phases including sales. This approach makes SIU and the commercial broadcasters partners rather than competitors and antagonists. Therefore we urge the Board of Trustees to deny the request of WIDB to engage in the sale of advertising. We further Recommend that serious thought be given to the termination of the entire WIDB operation, with students encouraged to enroll in the school of Radio and TV where they can develop a well-rounded background in broadcasting. Thank you gentlemen.
HAROLD R. FISCHER
Thank you gentlemen. President Derge do you have any comments on questions before we…
SIU PRESIDENT DAVID R. DERGE
If the Board wishes to have any background on the conversation between WIDB and my staff, Dr. Mace, Dean of Students would be prepared to answer any questions you might have.
HAROLD R. FISCHER
Thank you gentlemen. Mr. McCroy, thank you for your time.
PAUL MCCROY
We have copies of everything we said, we would be happy to file with you people.
HAROLD R. FISCHER
Alright, leave them here with the secretary.
PAUL MCCROY
And thanks much.
HAROLD R. FISCHER
Thank you. Mr. Mace do you have any comments you want to add to that or just…
GEORGE MACE (Dean of Students)
Yes sir I would please. This is an interesting position that the Office of Student Affairs objects to the proposal. However the objection is not rooted in the testimony that has been given to this point. I think it should not pass with notice that WIDB is a first rate station,. I think part of the difficulty here is not the question of competition which I think the gentlemen have adequately demonstrated exists, it could cut into their commercial advertising, it would cut into the money that they need to run their stations,. The question I think however is one of unfair competition. And therefore I think the board should consider and the matter should turn on that. The reason the Office of Student Affairs could not support this particular proposal was because of two questions: one is a matter of liability the other is a question of equity. With respect to the matter of liability, it is indeed a fact that the Board of Trustees is liable for such things that may occur on WIDB. It is not correct to say WIDB is not monitored, that there is not oversight. In fact, in point of fact, WIDB is channeled into the Student Center and so for a certain number of hours of the day, more than just administrators and fiscal officers and faculty advisors monitor those broadcasts. They also without being required keep all the logs required by the FCC and these are open for investigation for any time should anyone care to view them. In the letter of November 2, 1971, I asked Mr. Adkins to come and consult with us and particularly invited him or a member of his Southern Illinois Broadcasters to think in terms of perhaps participating with WIDB. Our intent was to try the closest possible kind of consultation with them. That letter was not answered; nor were telephone calls following from that letter being unanswered. The basic problem as I see it is, first of all, a matter =of liability. Second is a matter of equity. It is true that the radio station has received to this point $35,000 in student activity fee support. If this is considered to be University funds and subsidy unquestionably we have the same problem perhaps as might exist with the Daily Egyptian. But I think that the theory of advertising is really not the issue, Dr. Walker. In think the theory of advertising when it becomes unfair is the issue, and I think that there are means where WIDB could be brought into the situation where it would be fair competition. As it stands now, I do not believe this is fair competition, but by the same token, the service that is provided by this station is a very fine one. The individuals who have been involved in it are very responsible. I’m most impressed with them and their efforts to this point.
HARRIS ROWE
How is your liability program any different than the Daily Egyptian?
GEORGE MACE
I think the liability program is not any different. Probably the best arrangement that exists in this state is the University of Illinois. The student radio station WPGU I believe, it is, PGU was an outgrowth of the Ilini. Both are not-for-profit corporations. I believe that is correct. I know they are.
WILLIAM W. ALLEN
Both are operated by Ilini Publishing Company, separate entity, fully owned by the university.
GEORGE MACE
This was the primary objection my office had to it.
MARTIN VAN BROWN
I have one question about, I noticed Mr. Major, ASCAP, BMI SESAC, if this goes commercial do we have to establish a set of books and a set of audits and a set of accounting procedures?
GEORGE MACE
Those procedures exist now as with any student organization I have the printouts if the board would care to examine them.
MARTIN VAN BUREN
Well, what about the royalties?
GEORGE MACE
The advertising fees?
MARTIN VAN BROWN
No, royalties for playing the music.
GEORGE MACE
The royalties for the present time are I think only the fact that they receive the records.
MARTIN VAN BROWN
They don’t pay any royalties now?
GEORGE MACE
Oh, you mean for the companies involved? Dick, can you answer?
RICHARD MAJOR, SIU Legal Counsel
I think the point was made that ASCAP fees would have to be paid for records.
MARTIN VAN BROWN
The other question, about the wage-hour law. If this station goes commercial, do you have to abide by the wage-hour law?
RICHARD MAJOR
Dr. Brown, the question is if we have some employees can we even accept volunteer labor? The fair labor standards act says you’ll not suffer or permit anybody to be employed unless they are paid the same as others doing the same work.
MARTIN VAN BROWN
You can’t accept volunteer labor if this goes commercial.
RICHARD MAJOR
That is a possibility. I haven’t examined it in depth but off hand you’re correct.
WILLIAM W. ALLEN
I would like to get one point that has been rolled out here about the differences between liability. There’s no difference in liability, it’s been pointed out, there’s a considerable difference in control between the the Daily Egyptian and WIDB. The Daily Egyptian is at least assigned to the administrative control of the School of Communications. Is this not correct? Now whether or not this is properly expressed is another question. At least the publisher which is the eight men at this table have a way to express itself. This is not the case, however, in the present structure of WIDB. It could, as Mr. Gruney points out, exercise that control through the granting of funds and any strings the board sought to place on any Student Activity Fund which has been an item of other consideration of this board.
MARTIN VAN BROWN
Would you recommend that, I noticed one of the broadcasters recommended that this be placed in the School of Communications? And you as Dean of Students, since you don’t support this, you wouldn’t recommend that this operation be placed under communications?
GEORGE MACE
No sir, I would not. I think that one of the other reservations I have concerning the academic aspect of the radio station, I think there are other alternatives that could be pictured. I think I would disagree with Mr. Major with the fact that you cannot voluntarily work because we can arrange for example to have practicums where in which student credit is granted for people who pursue work with a radio station. We’re presently attempting to put together a program whereby we have a competitive program in an ongoing fashion with local industry and it would seem to me that this would apply to the radio stations also.
WILLIAM W. ALLEN
We make a specific exclusion in those cases where there is no academic program. You’re describing one in which there is an academic program, the parallel is not correct.
GEORGE MACE
Right. The second thing is that it would seem to me at that point to enter upon duplication. I think that the kind of service that WIDB is giving is primarily a service. I do not see it as an academic function. It is true that some who participate obviously learn from their experience as we all do. But I think that our present radio and broadcast systems are sufficient to provide what we need by way of academic concerns and education.
HAROLD R. FISCHER
Yes.
RICHARD GRUNEY
Mr. Chairman I would like to point out that this question of the fair labor standards act is a very involved one. But even where we have had an academic program, in our present broadcasting program and specifically in television I spent a great many hours with the federal wage and hour boys about a year ago and in fact they made us pay back wages to some of these people in spite of the fact that it was tied to an academic program. Now I can’t make a catagorical statement as to this particular operation until I know all opf the patrticulars of how it will operate, but that is a very real posiblity.
HAROLD R. FISCHER
Dr. Walker, you had a question.
EARL WALKER
Sir I was wondering if one of the board members is going to be willing to move that this resolution is going to be approved so we can get it before…
HAROLD R. FISCHER
I don’t know, do you want to make the motion?
EARL WALKER
No.
HARRIS ROWE
I will but I’m afraid I can’t get a second.
HAROLD R. FISCHER
Are you making the motion?
HARRIS ROWE
I move the resolution be adopted.
HAROLD R. FISCHER
Is there a second to the motion? I’m afraid we’re lost for a lack of a second. Again, I thank everybody for their excellent presentation. Appreciate the way.
IVAN ELLIOTT JR.
Don’t interpret this as a lack of interest in your station,,. I think the comment has been made several times that you have done a fine job.; But we hope you will continue to do a fine job, and I would like to reiterate the comment I made a minute ago you have been well staffed, have had fun, I hope you can continue doing so and we hope we can see that you are funded some other way.
WILLIAM W. ALLEN
I’m sure what’s been said here on the record in terms of that operation would auger well for this board’s sympathetic attitude towards proper funding through student fees.
HAROLD R. FISCHER
Thank you immensely.
