Chapter 18
September 1972 The Transcript Part 1
SIU BOARD OF TRUSTEES MEETING
SEPTEMBER 15, 1972
TRANSCRIPT OF ITEM J
HAROLD L. FISCHER
We will now return to item I, which we passed over 35 minutes ago for item J, “Advertising Proposals, Student Radio Station WIDB, SIU-C, General Manager Joel Preston, WIDB has asked to present this.
JOEL PRESTON
My name is Joel Preston. I’m Chairman of the WIDB Board of Directors and General Manager of WIDB. Sitting next to me is Robbie Davis, the Sales Manager, should this proposal be approved.
I am here to speak on behalf of the matter before you, the WIDB Sales Proposal.
WIDB is a carrier-current radio station which broadcasts with low power to the on-campus dorms in Carbondale. Our programming is top 40 and progressive music, integrated with a heavy concentration of news of campus interest.
I hope you have had an opportunity to study the proposal. I realize it is a lengthy proposal, over 50 pages, yet the proposal itself represents a rather massive editorial selection of all the hundreds of items that we have collected over the past two and a half years. It offers the history of WIDB, an exhibit of the existence of the overwhelming community support and desire for the service proposal, and it demonstrates the educational worth of the program.
This proposal is not new. When WIDB was originally chartered in 1968, the Student Senate authorized sales for WIDB.
Dr. Wilbur Moulton, who was then Dean of Students, decided that WIDB should first establish itself and work out the organizational kinks before attempting a sales program.
WIDB went on the air in March 1970 and a year later, we wrote the first draft of a sales proposal and submitted it to Dr, Moulton. It worked its way to Dr. George Mace, at that time assistant to the Vice-President for Student Affairs under President Robert G. Layer. Since that time, the proposal has undergone scrutiny and revision. Supportive evidence has been gathered; it has survived a new campus administration and innumerable meetings and it has encountered some delays.
But the concept remained unchanged in all of these months. What you are now considering is, in my mind, perhaps the best-researched and well-thought out proposal originated by a student group.
We have followed the appropriate administrative channels…step by step…checked every possible point of contention. We never resorted to publicity tactics or personal attacks or embarrassing confrontations and the like. We preferred to think that the proposal could stand on its own merit before you gentlemen, and then you’d be able to see the clear thinking of the proposal, unpressured by outside influences, and reach a favorable decision.
Let’s look at WIDB’s past financing. To date we’ve depended on Student Activity Fees—about $40,000 worth in the last 3 years. It sounds like a lot of money–and it is. For the Student Activity Fee, it is a lot of money. For a radio station it is really quite small. Yet this year the Finance Committee of the Student Senate recommended an allocation of $19,000—the fifth largest among all organizations funded, surpassed only by Student Government Activities Council, Student Government itself, the Black Affairs Council, and the Daily Egyptian. We looked on that recognition by our peers of WIDB as an essential program and a vote of confidence for a job well done.
But running an operation like WIDB, which services 6400 students 24 hours a day, costs a large amount of money. Even a small radio budget is a massive outlay of funds for Student Activities. We recognize this. We also recognize that there must be a continuing flow of funds…year to year….if the program is to enjoy continuing health.
That is the reason for the proposal. We want to relieve ourselves as a burden to Student Activities, at least partially. We also want to run a radio station…and run it right!
In reviewing the optional sources of funding, we have determined that establishing a sales program could provide these extra monies, as much as $8,000 in the first 9 months. In future years, we’d be able to ask for less and less money, thereby freeing more money to be used effectively in other areas. It is reliably estimated that in 3 to 5 years, WIDB would need only a small allocation to be used as insurance against the possibility of a “bad” year, when sales income might drop below estimated receipts. The primary concept of the proposal is to relieve ourselves as a burden to Student Activities, and turn ourselves into an asset.
It is important to add at this point that this idea is by no means without precedent. There are over 400 carrier-current radio stations similar in organization and purpose to WIDB throughout the United States which bring in varying amounts of sales income to supplement other revenue.
And, in Illinois, every state school which has an operation like ours has given the station the right to solicit and receive advertising revenue. Notably WKDI at Northern Illinois University will bring in $30,000 this coming year. Only three years ago they were in our situation and started their sales program by bringing in $4,000. Such is the potential of this sales program. WIDB may not seek to make $30,000….we seek to cover our operational expenses.
There are precedents on the Carbondale campus. The Daily Egyptian in 1970-71 covered 62% of its $300,000 in operating costs by selling space in the newspaper, while Student Activities paid 17% of that cost. That’s what this proposal would do…cover operation costs by selling time in our programming to local merchants. Surveys indicate that these merchants are jumping at the chance to reach our listeners.
A small staff of student salesmen under a sales manager appointed by myself would solicit businessmen in specific and assigned areas in Carbondale. Contracts for this service would be approved by University Legal Counsel and authorized affidavits of proof of performance would be sent to clients to assure compliance with the agreements. We would sell at a rate closely aligned with local media, so as to not unfairly undercut them.
What would the money be used for? Operational costs, such as United Press International news service, repair and maintenance of equipment, extension of our presently unattractive facilities, and most important, at least to me, salaries for staff heads. A core group of about 80 people who work at WIDB put in from 20 to 30 hours a week there, and presently receive no financial remuneration. Those students could spend those hours studying a little harder or earning money in a student work position to help finance their education. They prefer to seek the experience of WIDB.
Under this proposal, these staff heads would become student workers through the supervisory control of the Student Activities Office and complying with all applicable University and Student Work office policies and regulations. The Daily Egyptian employs 90 students…we would employ 11.
Keeping in mind our desire to relieve ourselves as a financial burden on Student Activity fees (a problem this Board, Student Government and Dr. Mace’s office has been recently struggling with) I would state that this proposal is a step in the right direction. There is much to gain and virtually no risk.
The wheels and the gears are assembled for the sales department, the system has gone thru a dry run, and this proposed sales department is ready to be integrated into WIDB, which already has proved itself to be an essential service to SIU-Carbondale students.
I thank you for the time and opportunity to address you, but also the experience of learning the ins and outs of the University system. I learned more about dealing with the system than I intended to when I started out so long ago. After following this proposal for many, many months…we now await your decision. If you have any questions I will answer them as briefly as possible right now.
QUESTIONS FROM THE BOARD OF TRUSTEES:
WILLIAM W. ALLEN
If you are ever going into broadcasting, you’ve got a valuable experience, if you are going to deal with the FCC.
JOEL PRESTON
Yes, I will agree.
MARTIN VAN BROWN
Do you get paid?
JOEL PRESTON
No I do not.
MARTIN VAN BROWN
Neither one of you. Do you do this for love?
JOEL PRESTON
It’s called “for love only” in the radio broadcasting business.
MARTIN VAN BROWN
Who is the Fiscal Officer for WIDB?
JOEL PRESTON
Fiscal officer at the present time is Robert Saieg. He is also in the Student Activities Office.
WILLIAN W. ALLEN
Mr. Preston, you have done a great deal of work, and it’s well done. There are some questions still unanswered. I have some technical ones. In the dormitories which you serve on your common-carrier system, do these students have available to them standard AM-FM broadcasts? Or is the structure of some of the buildings such that it is difficult to receive standard AM-FM reception?
JOEL PRESTON
The WIDB programming is received on standard AM receiver, along with all the other radio stations which are similarly available on the band.
WILLIAM W. ALLEN
No that isn’t my question.
JOEL PRESTON
Some of the buildings, it is true, are constructed in such a manner that distant stations have poor reception. They are not necessarily unreceivable, but they have poor reception.
WILLIAM W. ALLEN
How about the local stations? Could I receive WCIL anyplace in any dorm?
JOEL PRESTON
To my knowledge, yes, I can’t really say, but yes.
WILLIAM W. ALLEN
Then the other question here: does the station have the same sort of educational relationship to the university as the Daily Egyptian? You have drawn this as a precedent and a parallel.
JOEL PRESTON
No sir. Strictly speaking, the Daily Egyptian is also used as a laboratory for the Journalism department and receives academic funds. They have three sources; three primary sources of income; We now seek to have two rather than one.
WILLIAM W. ALLEN
And the additional funds which you hope to raise through the sale of advertising, what percentage of that goes to the various items you have outlined? You outlined a UPI wire, and I assume you operated not without a wire?
JOEL PRESTON
No, we have a UPI wire service. I have mentioned those items strictly as giving you an idea of what types of items had costs on a radio station.
WILLIAM W. ALLEN
What will he additional revenue be used for?
JOEL PRESTON
The additional revenue will be used to pay staff heads, a student work position.
WILLIAM W. ALLEN
Okay, what percentage goes to salary?
JOEL PRESTON
I wouldn’t be able to tell you. As I said—
WILLIAM W. ALLEN
More than half, less than half?
JOEL PRESTON
Less than half, much less than half.
WILLIAM W. ALLEN
All right, then the rest of the money would be used as a direct reduction of your Student Activity grant.
JOEL PRESTON
That’s correct. Not necessarily this year, because this year costs will be involved in implementing the sales program. In future years we hope to be able to ask for less money from Student Activities.
WILLIAM W. ALLEN
You receive about $9,000 a year from Student Activities?
JOEL PRESTON
Last year we received about $9,000. The recommendation this year was $19,000.
WILLIAM W. ALLEN
Okay, and what other subsidies do you receive from the university?
JOEL PRESTON
Strictly from the University there are none.
WILLIAM W. ALLEN
From any source whatsoever?
JOEL PRESTON
Okay, strictly from the University, we are in housing facilities built by housing bonds, so that’s not necessarily University; it is University-related.
WILLIAM W. ALLEN
No, that’s the Board of Trustees.
JOEL PRESTON
Okay, Board of Trustees University as a student would see it. We have access to Physical Plant maintenance for which we pay. We have access to all of the supportive services of the University: Purchasing, General Stores, and those items. And that’s about it.
WILLIAM W. ALLEN
Do you pay a fee for your use of telephone lines in your common-carrier system? Do you pay a fee to the Telephone Company or to the University for the use of these lines?
JOEL PRESTON
We pay a fee to the telephone company.
WILLIAM W. ALLEN
For the use of those lines, or other services?
JOEL PRESTON
For the use of those lines.
WILLIAM W. ALLEN
How large is that fee?
JOEL PRESTON
It is $10 per line. And the normal radio station would only have one or two lines to its transmitters. We have a number of transmitters, therefore, we have ten lines.
WILLIAM W. ALLEN
But this is ten lines from your board to the transmitter, and you’re paying no fee for the common-carrier system since you really don’t have a standard AM transmitter.
JOEL PRESTON
We pay for the telephone lines. That is all.
WILLIAM W. ALLEN
This is the telephone “B” loop from your station to your transmitter, a broadcast quality line.
JOEL PRESTON
That’s correct.
WILLIAM W. ALLEN
It’s not a standard telephone transmission line.
JOEL PRESTON
Right.
WILLIAM W. ALLEN
But the signal is carried on the telephone lines that go through the building.
JOEL PRESTON
No sir.
WILLIAM W. ALLEN
Oh, it is not!
JOEL PRESTON
The signal is carried throughout the building on the electrical system. Any AM radio which is near the electrical system will pick up the station.
WILLIAM W. ALLEN
Sure, I misunderstood. I thought you were using telephone carrier.
JOEL PRESTON
It is possible for stations to use those, yes.
EARL WALKER
How many of the individuals involved in managing the broadcasting associated with this program how many of the students are going into broadcasting?
JOEL PRESTON
We have 80 students working with us. I would say (the last time I checked was Spring Quarter) but about 50 of them are registered or intend to major in Radio-Television.
MARTIN VAN BROWN
If this proposal goes thru, you two fellows are going to get a raise in pay.
JOEL PRESTON
Not a raise in pay. Well, a raise from nothing to $1.60 an hour for fourteen hours a week. It’s not necessarily indicative of the hours we put in.
DONALD FAUTS
And even though there is no academic credit attached to the activities, at least as you are proposing it now, you do feel that the program would be of academic benefit to the participants.
JOEL PRESTON
Yes, because presently the Radio-TV Department at SIU can offer no practical experience in the operation of a strictly commercial station. By reason of their classification of their FCC license, they have to maintain educational, non-commercial. We’d like to get experience in running a commercial operation, balancing the budget bringing in the receipts.
DONALD FAUTS
It is also possible that eventually credit courses might be designed to be built around this core.
JOEL PRESTON
It is possible, but no conversation with any of the gentlemen from the Radio-TV Department has taken place.
W. VICTOR ROUSE
Have you attempted any?
JOEL PRESTON
Only on a very casual basis. They would like to see utilizing the facilities of WIDB in conjunction with some courses, but not necessarily for course credit. For instance, a course on how to write a spot, a commercial announcement, it is possible that some of our work could be taken off and given to students in that course so they could actually how to write a commercial announcement, with all the things it entails. But I think that the Radio-TV Department is reluctant to enter into that type of proposition that the Journalism Department has with the Daily Egyptian, where WIDB, which is a student activity, would become academically involved.
W. VICTOR ROUSE
Why do you think that’s true?
JOEL PRESTON
There is the whole idea of WIDB…that it is student oriented, and student managed, and student owned. And there is a tendency on both the Student Government and the WIDB Board of Directors and the Radio-TV Department not to involve each other, except on an informal basis.
W. VICTOR ROUSE
So you really don’t want that involvement either?
JOEL PRESTON
Not necessarily, I would consider it, but it brings in some experience that I know when you bring in the Department and the General Manager is no longer the General Manager, the General Manager is the person acting on behalf of the faculty member.
WILLIAM W. ALLEN
Who holds the FCC…it’s not a license I believe, it’s a permit?
JOEL PRESTON
No sir, there is no licensing or permit from the Federal Communications Commission. By virtue of our low power, we fall under the regulations of the FCC. We aren’t strong enough. The FCC can step in and shut us down if we go over that power or interfere with other radio stations.
WILLIAM W. ALLEN
Who’s liable in your judgment, and I want Mr. Gruny to respond to this from his point of view, do you have a judgment on who would be liable if you committed libel?
JOEL PRESTON
I would have to say, quite frankly, it would be the University since WIDB is a student activity and the University is responsible for any action of the student activities.
WILLIAM W. ALLEN
Mr. Gruny, agree?
C. RICHARD GRUNY, SIU LEGAL COUNSEL
Yes, sir.
WILLIAM W. ALLEN
So if someone on the station over which the University has no direct or indirect controls commits a libel, the University and the Board of Trustees would be liable for libel?
C. RICHARD GRUNY
Well, I would have to quarrel with part of the way your question is raised. The Student Activity money belongs to the Board of Trustees, and the Board of Trustees has a fiscal officer who is supposed to be responsible to them. So the Board of Trustees does have indirect, through its agents, control over the station. Whether they exercise it or not is something else.
JOEL PRESTON
I would also like to add that liability for libelous statements is present now and really doesn’t have anything to do with whether or not we are given the right to solicit commercial advertising.
WILLIAM W. ALLEN
It does when you come to the question of who really is the owner of the station or who are the owners of the station, for the reason that, I believe a state body is precluded from entering into competitive business.
JOEL PRESTON
It would be our contention that we would not be entering to competitive business any more than other student activities such as the Daily Egyptian. If we would be competing with local radio stations, it would be our contention that the Daily Egyptian competes with the Southern Illinoisan and other local newspapers.
DONALD FAUTS
You’ve mentioned that there are student radio stations at other institutions in this state which do sell time for commercial advertising including WDKI (sic) at Northern Illinois University. In their experience, have they run into any difficulties in terms of the community or whatever? Have they opened themselves to charges of unfair competition or whatever?
JOEL PRESTON
No, sir, actually everybody there that we’ve contacted is surprised that this concern is evident. The only thing they have problems with the local radio stations is that the local radio stations like to hire their talent away from them.
WILLIAM W. ALLEN
Then you have talked with WLBK?
JOEL PRESTON
WKDI, yes.
WILLIAM W. ALLEN
WLBK, the local commercial station in Dekalb?
JOEL PRESTON
No sir, I have not.
WILLIAM W. ALLEN
Well, his question was: did WLBK object to the competition?
JOEL PRESTON
In speaking with WKDI, we ascertained, and I would trust them because they…
WILLIAM W. ALLEN
That’s their viewpoint.
JOEL PRESTON
Okay.
IVAN A. ELLIOTT
You say you have 80 people working on WIDB this year. Is that approximately correct?
JOEL PRESTON
Eighty people walk in and out of our doors each week.
IVAN A. ELLIOTT
Do you have adequate volunteer help to run your transmitter and your program?
JOEL PRESTON
We have first-class, first class not in the jargon term, but first class as in FCC rating, first-class engineers to handle our transmitting equipment and programming is handled by students who are primarily involved in Radio-Television.
IVAN A. ELLIOTT
Well if you have enough volunteers to conduct your program…
JOEL PRESTON
Eighty people is sufficient to run a 24 hour operation. It is a large staff.
IVAN A ELLIOTT
You haven’t had any shortage of people. Volunteers to run your program.
JOEL PRESTON
No, it seems people enjoy working with us in a casual atmosphere reaping quite a few educational…a line on a resume actually.
IVAN A. ELLIOT
From what I’ve heard about it, they’ve had fun in this casual atmosphere. Is that right?
JOEL PRESTON
I wouldn’t deny it—yes, we enjoy each others company and it’s conducive to making friends among the staff members.
IVAN A. ELLIOTT
And if this becomes commercial from the standpoint of salaries, do you think there might be a danger of losing some of this casual atmosphere that you’ve had, and has been so much fun for those of you who have worked with it?
JOEL PRESTON
Well we figure fun is more or less a by-product and our stated purpose is to serve the students of Carbondale. And we will sacrifice if we can more effectively serve the students. A question Mr. Fischer?
HAROLD R. FISCHER
How do you figure you could become more effective serve the students? I thought you were doing a good job for them.
JOEL PRESTON
We are, we are doing it under a lot of stress.
IVAN A.ELLIOTT
Well, let’s ask a question in that regard. If you accept advertising, do you have a standard of how many minutes of ads you have per hour…you can have per hour, such as those faced by other regular stations?
JOEL PRESTON
Yes sir, we are members of an organization called the Intercollegiate Broadcasting System Inc. It is an organization which lays down strict engineering standards and strict programming standards, and we have a self-imposed standard that we are not going to put on any more than eight spots per hour, eight minutes of spots, eight spots.
IVAN A. ELLIOTT
But this self-imposed…so that if you decide you want to have fifty-eight minutes of ads and two minutes of music you have no restrictions except your self-imposed restrictions, is that right?
JOEL PRESTON
Except for the fact that we are Radio-TV students and know it is a stab in your own back. We know that defeats—
IVAN A. ELLIOTT
Well I’ll ask you something.
JOEL PRESTON
Nobody listens to your station if it has 58 minutes of ads.
IVAN A. ELLIOTT
Being an occasional radio and television watcher, it seems to me that the popcorn breaks are getting pretty long and some of them pretty obnoxious.
JOEL PRESTON
I would agree, yes.
IVAN A. ELLIOTT
Especially during the Olympics. And I wonder if this is really to the student’s benefit to have advertising to break the continuity of what would be pleasurable programming for students. You might lower in your quality and you don’t need to lower in your quality in order to maintain your service. You’ve got enough people doing the job. Have you considered this distraction?
JOEL PRESTON
We have enough people, but one of the other sources we need is sufficient funding and continuous funding year to year. Funds for WIDB have been sporadic and—
IVAN A. ELLIOTT
You’ve been in existence for two years and funded twice.
JOEL PRESTON
Three times.
IVAN A. ELLIOTT
Three years.
JOEL PRESTON
Yes. the problem is that people work there for fun, but also work there long hours…20 to 30 hours a week and, as I said I personally could be studying harder, getting better grades in my major, or I could be working at a local radio station. I prefer not to, mainly because I feel WIDB is a better experience.
IVAN A. ELLIOTT
If you become a commercial station, will you still be able to get records from record companies at no cost?
JOEL PRESTON
Yes sir, that is the standard procedure. If the record company feels you are reaching a large enough audience, and effectively, they’ll give you free record transcriptions.
ROBBIE DAVIS (WIDB Sales Manager)
I might add that they look forward to us selling time because they have a lot of commercials they’d like us to air for them.
EARL E. WALKER
Mr. Chairman.
IVAN A. ELLIOTT
How about the type of commercials that you take? Have you no restrictions except your self-imposed restrictions that you comment about in your materials on the type of commercials you accept?
JOEL PRESTON
I would draw your attention to the Working Papers in which we say that we would accept commercial advertising except in the following categories: distilled alcoholic beverages, funeral services, or articles of sexual hygene. And furthermore, there is no indication of endorsement of products or services advertised to be intended by either Southern Illinois University, the Student Senate or the radio station. To change that we would have to go through a very long procedure in the Student Senate.
IVAN A. ELLIOTT
Is there an implication of endorsement of a product by accepting advertising? Sort of a Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval thing by accepting advertising on a…
JOEL PRESTON
No sir, all radio stations put that in their policy: that there is no endorsement of products. It’s merely that they are making their media available to advertisers.
WILLIAM W. ALLEN
But does the public catch this implication? No matter what policy in a book in your office might say.
JOEL PRESTON
No, I think that the public is well aware that by the mere volume of announcements, that the local station is not endorsing any of those products.
HAROLD R. FISCHER
Dr. Walker.
EARL WALKER
First of all, I want to commend you highly in your presentation. I would hope that President Derge has been watching you perform. We need individuals who present themselves as ably and steadily and persistently, honestly and straightforward as you have presented it. The one problem I have is in the competition that this may or may not set up in private enterprise. I can see that this may exist in several things that we have and I’d like very much to see this supported. But at this point I find myself saying we need a general review of the entire policy of the University in advertising and selling spots in all of the agencies of the University for advertising. So until a general policy is set I think we really can’t decide with fairness on this one issue. I’d like to make a proposal that we defer further consideration on this issue until we have a recommendation by the administration at to whether we continue to sell advertising for any of the agencies of the University or whether we continue to support it. In that case I would like to say that we have no alternative but to support you.
JOEL PRESTON
May I ask a question Dr. Walker? Would this review apply to all of the University services which conceivable compete…including the bookstore and…
EARL WALKER
Right, that’s what I’d like.
JOEL PRESTON
Would that also apply to Student Activities running motion pictures for no cost or little cost which conceivably competes with local theaters?
EARL WLAKER
That too. I was thinking primarily of the Egyptian.
